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Topic: Please read everyone.

dr-robert started this discussion 4.7 years ago #2,693

Due to the ongoing struggle with trolls and others who refuse to respect the posted protocols of the site:

http://robert.ismouton.org/topic/9

http://robert.ismouton.org/topic/1265

it has become necessary to tighten up requirements for posting privileges. Beginning soon, you will be required to provide a valid email address, and then respond to a link sent to that address before being able to post.

In order to maintain the privacy of visitors, which has always been a high priority with me (but which, unfortunately, has allowed access to those who do not deserve it), your email address will NOT be recorded or stored anywhere.

To the trolls who imagine that they are "intelligent" because they can find ways to mess with the work of others instead of doing some of their own:

1. Get a life.

2. I understand that you can create a new email address, and then use it to get the posting privileges. We are setting it up this way as a first step in order not to over-complicate matters for the serious users of this site. If necessary, there are more stringent methods which can be used, and which will be put in place if necessary.

RS

Jake joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 4 hours later[^] [v] #0

> Has allowed access to those who do not deserve it
Doc, by banning me and also posting this, you're saying that I don't have the right to come here for help. I've been completely serious with everything I've posted and have never once "trolled". I come here for help and input and have never made false statements and have never exaggerated anything. In short, I tell it like it be.
We know the only one here immune from ban is Hexi, but what does that show the rest of us? That you ban all his opposers for trolling yet he is the troll king. Don't take this wrong, I don't want Hexi to leave like the everyone else, but you shouldn't ban me either.
Just lift the ban, I'm not a troll.

Hexi joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 30 minutes later, 4 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

That's an unsubstantiated claim to make, plain and simple. I've argued with Sifter many times, is she banned? No. I've argued with Mekay, is she banned? No. I've argued with Helen, is she banned? No. I've pretty much had disagreements with everyone here at one point or another, most of all the Doc.

The only place where I've trolled people is the social board since it was established because it was made for that reason.

Hexi double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 39 minutes later, 5 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

> Do they piss you off like I did? No. You (did) though, to others, but you surprise surprise, you've never been banned.
>
> Why, Robert? WHY?!

Because I very rarely attack the person itself and instead, focus on what they are saying. If you dropped the "mommy mommy it's not fair" attitude and went' back to read things you would realize that.

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

> That, and Sifter is an Admin. And you didn't argue with Mekay, you told her beliefs were bullshit. That's not an argument, that's just being mean. You should have been banned for that, but of course you weren't because the Doctator took your side.

You think I've never argued with Sifter or Mekay before you even got here? How is stating that I think religion is bullshit any meaner than someone saying it is not? It's a statement of opinion if you can't handle a statement of opinion then stop talking to people. Should Robert ban you now cause you stated your opinion? NO, you're being silly.

Furthermore, this isn't your sovereign nation of whatever it might be, this is the Doctor Robert forum, his sovereign place on the internet and if you don't like it you can just leave instead of crying about it. I certainly never cry if people *don't* get banned, like you claimed earlier.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Hexi triple-posted this 4.7 years ago, 28 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
I haven't intended to hurt anyone in a long time, stop making up an insult where none was. If I wanted to use personal attacks and to actually hurt someones feelings, you would notice it. In fact, you're whole sentence is silly. How on earth does attacking christianity hurt her? What, I'm not allowed to criticize a book? What kind of nonsense is that? So if you criticize Twilight it's an attack on my feelings? LOL

(Edited 57 seconds later.)

Jennifer joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 8 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Hexi, actually, if you knew there was someone who cared deeply about the book or the Twilight movie for whatever reason and then you come around and start throwing insults, I can certainly see how that would hurt a person because it is very personal to them. I'm not saying you have to cater to everyone's feelings but.. you know where the line is.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Ailonna joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 19 minutes later, 6 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Jake, you aren't banned, so why are you bitching?

To anyone opposed to this whole thing, if Hexi was banned, how would you all feel?

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 30 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

> Hexi, actually, if you knew there was someone who cared deeply about the book or the Twilight movie for whatever reason and then you come around and start throwing insults, I can certainly see how that would hurt a person because it is very personal to them. I'm not saying you have to cater to everyone's feelings but.. you know where the line is.

Yes, the line is god and god can go fuck himself. I asked you 5 times, you still refuse to answer me yet continue to claim it. Where in that thread did I insult anyone. You can't answer, because I didn't. If me saying I don't believe in a god, and why, insults you or anyone else then you have some serious issues which I'm not responsible. I mean... LOOK at yourself! You're defending mekays right to beleive whatever she wants in 3 fucking threads against what? My belief?

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Because Twilight is a book. The bible is a book. To me, they are both just books. Look at Jennifer, not once did I attack her or Mekay yet they both been repeating that I did for a day now and when asked how, they just repeat that I'm attacking their right to believe when apparently, I have no right to believe what I do.

Do you people realize how hypocritical you are? Do you realize that the very statement that you are a christian, which Mekay keeps repeating, is an affront to many people? Do you see how completely and utterly STUPID your point is? It exists in a vacuum, it's childish.

(Edited 9 minutes later.)

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 8 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Hexi, you are free to believe what you want. If you are an atheist and some religious person came in saying how dumb and childish atheism is I would have your back on that too. I already told you in another thread that I would have to go back and read where but I didn't want to do that. If you didn't say anything degrading than you didn't. And, since you've obviously become confused, I didn't say anything about Mekay or her beliefs over here. I didn't even say the line is god or religion. I think the line covers a hell of a lot more than that, especially on a psychology forum... or at least it should. I was just saying here how depending on how deep the feelings are for a certain thing, to insult that certain thing makes it personal to the person with the deep feelings. I care a lot about the cats that have pretty much adopted me. If someone came in here and started talking, seriously, about how cat lovers are emotionally childish and how we should all have a cat kabob party, I would feel insulted. I might not say anything, but I would feel it. Especially if the person comes in with things like PhD's and where people look up to that person to have knowledge of the inner workings of the mind and and emotion and who can, when they choose, be gentle and compassionate.

(Edited 7 minutes later.)

Narc joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 51 seconds later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

I don't think arguing about who is to blame and for what is going to solve things.
Robert will probably give a chance for everyone to adjust to the new system -- the only difference would be that it would be harder to get around bans. For new people it might also mean that posting can get a little bit harder, but that has nothing to do with us.

Anyway, if you don't mind me giving my two cents I think any topic of discussion should be allowed as long as it doesn't insult anyone as a person. Personally I think it's perfectly okay to question religions as long as it's done in a good manner. Obviously some people might still get offended that always happens but it does not mean that we should get offended ourselves, because that's when good discussion deteriorates into flame war. Explaining your point of view in a different, more elaborate manner might make the other party to understand that you weren't trying to offend them. If it doesn't, then in my opinion it's completely fine to ignore the person.
It also wouldn't hurt to try to put yourself in the other person's position and try to think whether you would be offended if somebody said something similar to you.

Also, I think the difference between a debate and a discussion should be recognized. A debate usually requires an audience and the point of a debate is to win. A good discussion is something conducted between open-minded people and the point of it is to learn. If there's a debate going on it's smart to think twice whether contributing to it will ever bear any fruit, as neither side will likely yield. Seeing your own ideals get trashed on a public forum might not be the most pleasant sight but it should be kept in mind that most issues, concerning religions for example, are being discussed on a global scale everywhere in the world and winning a debate on a small forum like this will most likely mean nothing. You'll probably only gain a few angry posts and get some people to leave the forum.

(Edited 23 minutes later.)

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 7 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
So you don't even know if I say what you claim I said, but you still claim I said it. Ok, you're a racist and hate all black people!

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
What did I claim you said? That you were being insulting? I think Sifter even pointed out something for you. You weren't being accepting I know that much.

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 5 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
I said one thing, that comprised of 3 words, which I apologized for. Why do you keep ignoring what I say to you, and change things around? I wasn't being accepting? What the fuck does that even mean? I didn't make a SINGLE argument against anything. I asked few, short questions, nothing more and all the sudden I was twisting things and "mind fucking" when I made a total of 0 claims about anything.

I even stopped posting for fucks sake yet you keep on going and going.

(Edited 32 seconds later.)

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Ok Hexi.

But, on the bright side, if I ever just feel like being a total ass to someone different than me, I know where I can go to do it. Who needs those sites made specifically for getting lols at other peoples expense when you have the Dr Robert Forum?

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
See what I mean, everyone who's reading this thread? Why even say that and ignore everything I said, again? How have I been an ass in that thread or this one?

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Because I don't want to fight with you. I'm sick of standing my ground just to have someone tell me how idiotic I am.

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 5 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
And when did I say that? You are making up an insult to yourself, by yourself. If you don't want to fight with me, as you claim, why do you keep making baseless claims and accusations against me? Even after I stopped responding to you, you keep going? Why?

(Edited 15 seconds later.)

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Actually, it was Dr. Robert that said that one. And, when have you stopped? I am allowed to voice my opinion here, am I not? If not then I will leave. If so, then there was nothing wrong with my adding to the conversation about the twilight thing.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Umbra Lucis joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

> Actually, it was Dr. Robert that said that one.

He told you your acting like an idiot... Not that you are an idiot... You can be very smart and behave as an idiot...

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 5 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
The why are you telling me about it, and replying to ME with it, as if I'm responsible for what he says? Did I post "Agreed, it is idiotic"? No. In fact, what I did say was "I've tackled this topic enough, not gonna start again". That was my response to his early comments. Then, I started to think why *I* dislike the notion of a god and listed them, without insulting a single person and the both of you started to attack me and make wild claims. Even THEN I did, at no point, attack either of you. I questioned why would you say such a thing as a response to what I said, and you both kept complaining about something which I had no part in whatsoever.

Yes, I have said such things in the past and even if I believe that Mekay is a mentally damaged child, I wouldn't say it anymore, because it's pointless and I realized how much energy I've wasted pointless insults and had nothing to show for it. Note that I'm not saying she is, just pointing it out.

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 11 minutes later, 7 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
What's the difference? I mean really? It was said to show his dominant stance and that I was less.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 20 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Jake, I will tell you why.

This site is "my house." I created it for a specific purpose, which is to take questions directed to me from visitors to my website, and to allow others here to enter into those conversations. It has evolved to the point at which often I do not need to reply to all the questions I receive, because other wise and kind people here are able to help with that. I am happy to see that, because I do not have time to take on every question that comes up.

If someone disagrees with me about something I say, I am open to hearing that disagreement, but only if it is presented in a completely respectful manner. I laid this out long ago in a permanent post near the top of the page which you should read:

http://robert.ismouton.org/topic/1265

I banned you again because you took it upon yourself to tell me that you did not like the wording of an apology I offered to someone else. I will not stand for that. You will not tell me what to say or how to say it. I banned you the first time because I did not like your manner or your language.

This site is a special place. I do not know of another like it anywhere on the web. To be a regular here is a privilege, not a right. If you can understand that, I will give you another shot.

As for Hexi, it is quite simple. Hexi has been a regular since the old Dr. Robert Forum which had to be replaced by this one because trolls took it over. Hexi sometimes goes a bit too far, but, having heard from him for a long time now, I know that his heart is in the right place. And, as I said, he brings an intelligence to this board which I find helpful because it expresses a logical, unemotional point of view which is uncommon and, in my view, supports the work I want to accomplish here.

I don't like to ban anyone, Jake. So, if you actually understand that this is my deal here, and not yours, and can be totally and completely respectful towards me, as well as remaining within respectful bounds towards others, OK. If you are asking why I demand TOTAL respect towards myself while permitting a bit more of a free-for-all among the rest of you, very simple:

I am a trained, experience psychologist. I don't come here for help. I don't come here to pass the time. I don't come here for entertainment. I come here to serve. There is no advertising here, and I make not one cent from this site. I am donating my time and energy in order to help people who ask me for help. THAT is what demands complete respect. As I said, you can question my ideasthat's finebut I will brook no sarcasm, and certainly take no directions from you as to how I should express myself here.

If that is understood, tell me it is, and you are welcome back.

dr-robert (OP) double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 34 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Now, I want to say a word about religion. I have religious friends from various Christian churches and from other religions as well. None of them feels that I fail to respect them as people. I respect all people unless they destroy that respect by bad behavior of some kind. But I do not respect religion at all. I find religion to be a cop-outa form of psycholgical escapism from the realities of life and death, and I am sad to see children being taught religious ideas because I know that many of them will spend years and yearsperhaps their entire lives--oppressed by those ideas. To take just one small example: suppose you are born into a strict evangelical Christian family which believes that homosexuality is an affront to "the creator," and then you turn out to be gay (which is NOT, as these religious idiots claim, a "life-style choice," or an illness which can be cured by some pastor)? I won't even get into the rejection of science, the jiggering of text books and schools, the right-wing politics, and all the rest of the social manipulation these churches (which are supposed to be about "God," not influencing society at large which exists not to promote religion, but to allow a space for everyone) engage in. This is, in my view, a disgraceful mess, unworthy of our actual human potential.

OK, that is my opinion. You do not have to agree. You may completely disagree. That's fine, but by expresssing this opinion, I am not "bashing" anything. Your religious convictions are no more "sacred" than any other beliefs. Just because they were poured into your mind at an early age, or because they make you feel safe, or because they remove, for you, some of the fear of death, does NOT mean that I am required to "respect" them. I do NOT respect such ideas, just as I do not respect right-wing political ideas, for example, or many other beliefs of humans. I respect what I respect, and that is my right as a human being.

If your religious beliefs are so tenuous, so doubtful, that you cannot stand to hear disagreement, I think you need to find some new beliefs--ones which you really DO believe.

Now, finally: no child is born a "Christian child,"or a "Moslem child" or a "Jewish child." A child is just a child, and is born with no beliefs at all. Beliefs are TAUGHT to the child by the family. This is obvious and simple. My view is this: Neither you nor anybody else actually knows that the "God" you believe in exists. You may want to believe that such an entity exists, but you do not KNOW it. You don't KNOW anything about an afterlife. How could you? So, if you teach your child that such ideas are realthat they are factsyou are LYING to the child. And since the child depends upon you to form an accurate, workable picture of this world, when you intentionally lie to a child, you are ABUSING the child. You are abusing the trust of the child. Abuse is not just spanking or yelling. Lying to a child is also a form of abuse. That is my opinion, and, having spent thousands of hours sitting in a small room talking to people who were abused in that way as children and who still carry the scars, I know what I am talking about.

If you don't like to hear that, tough. Don't accuse me of "bashing." I am not bashing anything. I am telling you frankly how all of this looks from here. I advise all of you to examine your beliefs carefully. Do you cling to them because they were taught to you as a child, or because they reduce your fear, or because of family or social pressure? If those are the reasons, your belief is not real, but just a sell-out.

If you don't like hearing this, don't read it. As I told Jake, this is my house, and here I say what I see. And, when I reply to a question here from an orignal poster, I will not stand for anyone criticizing my reply. Disagree if you like (respectfully), but I will say exactly what I want to say, when I want to say it, and how I want to say it.

(Edited 11 minutes later.)

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 minutes later, 8 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

> Disagree if you like (respectfully), but I will say exactly what I want to say, when I want to say it, and how I want to say it.

Does this go for everyone here or just you?

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

OK, Jake. You are back.

Jennifer, my words do not lack clarity. Just reread them.

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
So, its just for you then. You can be as mean as you want and we all have to suck up to you. Got it. I'm outta here. I'm nobodies bitch.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Or you can just ignore him, like you ignore everything else you can't argue with.

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 6 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Yes, Jennifer. You have been largely self-centered, and disrespectful anyway, so for me, if you really do leave, it's no big loss. Knowing your situation, I have tried to make allowances, but, frankly, if you want to leave, and cannot understand why I must be respected here, go.

As for being "mean," you are dreaming. I have never written a single mean word here. Not one. You may not like everything I say, but all of it comes from an honest, open-hearted, unselfish place. If you cannot see that, that is your blindness.

dr-robert (OP) double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 4 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Jake, I did not say that at all. There are many wonderful, very bright and kind people here. That's what makes it work so well. I am amazed sometimes at the emotional and social intelligence I see manifested here, and I hope you will be a part of it.

I am not saying that Hexi cannot be banned. I said that he has a long track record, and so, like some others here, has earned a measure of latitude. If you hang in here, you will deserve the same, and then, if someone complains about you (they already have), I will say the same as I just said to you about Hexi.

Understand?

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 41 minutes later, 9 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

> Yes, Jennifer. You have been largely self-centered, and disrespectful anyway, so for me, if you really do leave, it's no big loss. Knowing your situation, I have tried to make allowances, but, frankly, if you want to leave, and cannot understand why I must be respected here, go.
>
> As for being "mean," you are dreaming. I have never written a single mean word here. Not one. You may not like everything I say, but all of it comes from an honest, open-hearted, unselfish place. If you cannot see that, that is your blindness.

Thanks for that. This idiot will keep that in mind over at psychcentral.com where they don't have issues like this. They respect me and I respect them. They have chat rooms where they have scheduled meetings and there are always licensed psychologists and therapists on. There's even an ask the psychologist section where you can get the personal advice of a psychologist in a respectful and professional way. They would never say anything like the above to someone. It's just not done. So, take care everyone. It was nice knowing some of you. Others can kiss my ass.

I have to add that I think its funny that you contradict your second paragraph with your first. No, not you. Not mean, ever. Just a little cruel.

(Edited 1 hour later.)

Mekay joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 hours later, 12 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
LOL you are fucking awesome. Period.
Just balls lady. You have them.
Hats off.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Molly joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 53 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

Hey Jen,

I cant really tell if I'm in the "kiss my ass" group or the ,"nice knowing you group" since I came out with my disdain for dogma,and beliefs.

Regardless...xxx I'm sorry you are hurt,as I know you are.

Sifter joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 14 minutes later, 13 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

Dr Robert, I gotta say, this seems out of kilter to me -

> Yes, Jennifer. You have been largely self-centered, and disrespectful anyway, so for me, if you really do leave, it's no big loss. Knowing your situation, I have tried to make allowances, but, frankly, if you want to leave, and cannot understand why I must be respected here, go.

It seems to me that you and Jennifer used to go head to head a lot, but a lot has changed and for ages your conversations have been on a pleasant and fruitful level. It's been really nice to see. And certainly Jennifer has been a great contributor and friend to many others. The religion thing has triggered the old arguments, but it seems to me it would be a great shame to have that determine the history and the outcome.

Jennifer replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 hours later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Yeah, my dad used to tell me it would be no big loss when I would scream at him that I wanted to die to try to get his attention. I don't have to listen to that shit from some quack dr who thinks he's gods gift to the world. Thanks for standing up for me Sifter but its a lost cause. See ya later.

Mekay replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 16 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

NO big loss is incredibly hurtful and Harsh. Dr. robert..
yet you claim to have never said a "mean thing" not once.
From who's perspective?? What a crock.

You need to take into consideration how much Jen loves this board..
and how much she has contributed over the years.


Yet, it's "no big loss" Do you HONESTLY have no clue
how hurtful you sound? That's just ridiculous.

It's like youre in total denial of your cruelness.
I guess therapists are not immune to their own
personality disorders.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Barbara joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 5 hours later, 21 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Dr. Robert - took your comment to heart about not posting anonymously when I'd already posted under a name. I'm the one who first said you sounded angry or high in your response. That was rude and I'm sorry. But, truly, passion about beliefs aside, you have been making flat-out cruel personal comments. I saw the arrogance in you, even on your web page. But not to be able to handle ANY disrespect? I understand why you might be "entitled" to that - it's your house - but why does an intelligent compassionate person like you NEED that? I don't want to be banned because I get so much from the insight and humanity of the regs here, Jennifer included, but it's a weird And unwelcome place if you can't handle our personalities.

Anonymous P joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 hour later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
There are other techniques.

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 24 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

Look, you all, Jennifer and I have a long history. She and I have been through this several times. I am NOT doing psychotherapy here. I am NOT Jennifer's hated daddy. This board is about replying to serious questions, NOT having my motives and methods called into question by anyone. If you don't like or understand what I am doing here, you can leave. I have already withstood enough of Jennifer's personal attacks. It is not my job to withstand them, and that is why I said she was welcome to leave.

When I said that I would brook no disrespect, but would allow the rest of you more leeway, Jennifer immediately converted that into something else entirely. If you don't remember that, go back and read it. It is not my responsibility to keep on dealing with attacks on my character. If this were psychotherapy, I might have to deal with that nasty task at times in order to allow the therapy to continue. I might even have to try to convince a client who felt "insulted" by me to stay, but here I will not do it.

Barbara, if I seem "arrogant" to you, OK. You have every right to your perceptions. Others praise my kindness and compassion. I guess most of this is in the eye of the beholder. It is not my job to "handle" your personality. There is a clear protocol here: disagree with me as much as you like, but do not evaluate my personality. I am fine with disagreement, as long as it is presented respectfully. I will try to respond intelligently and respectfully to any questions raised. Try to psychoanalyze me or criticize my personality, and I have zero interest in any conversation with you at all.

This is NOT group therapy with me as the facilitator. This is not ANY kind of therapy. I provide informed advice, and share my experience of the human mind and the human condition, for whatever that may be worth. Think of it as an intelligent and informed "Dear Abby."

I explained that dozens of times to Jennifer, both here and in PMs, but she became fixated upon me as an object--a "mean" one, like her abusive daddy. That is NOT my problem. To repeat: I am not anyone's therapist here. If you want to converse with me, I am totally open to it, but I will not allow anyone to get personal with me here.

Mekay replied with this 4.7 years ago, 14 minutes later, 23 hours after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
You always just get defensive. You actually believe you are
never wrong. I am actually saddened by it.

What you said was mean plain and simple. Telling someone
it doesn't matter if they are here or not and the comment
Sifter pointed out as "off kilter" was just flat out mean.

You are very stubborn. You don't have to be a therapist to
recognize that.

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 27 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

Last try, Mekay--

I never said I am never wrong, so that is total BS on your part. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said I am open to any and all disagreement, but that it must be expressed respectfully. I will accept criticism of my ideas and opinionsin fact, I welcome itbut I will not allow you or anyone else to characterize me personally as you have just done. Either learn the difference real quick, Mekay, or you are looking being at gone from here. I do not need or want to hear your judgments about me as a person, and I will not tolerate them.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

dr-robert (OP) double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 56 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

Jennifer and Mekay are now gone permanently, and their final ravings have been deleted. Niether will be allowed back under any circumstances.

I do not like banning anyone. I created this site to welcome people, not to exclude them. Banning them permanently was a last resort after trying to get them to understand the difference between disagreement with someone's point of view, and making an judgment on that person's character. Unfortunately, neither of them seemed to be able to make that distinction.

This was obvious in the thread on religion started by Psyche in which my views about religion were taken personally and considered "bashing." One's views about the customs and habits of this world are NEVER personal. Expressing distaste for religon is NOT a personal insult. But evaluating Dr. Robert's personality and motivations IS personal, and is not permitted here.

The proper course of action for both of those women would have been to say, "I do not agree with your views about religion. I think religion is valuable, and here is why." THAT is disagreement. Name-calling is NOT disagreement, but just the rude manifestation of a childish mind--schoolyard stuff.


I post this here in hopes that the rest of the group will understand this distinction. If you cannot see the difference between disagreement and name-calling, probably you are not in the right frame of mind to participate in this group, and if you persist in it, you will be banned. The point here is to provide information and support for people who want to grow emotionally and intellectually--not to provide a place for neurotic attacks on the doctor. That's just the way it is.

Be well,
RS

Anonymous Q joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 17 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

But you told Jennifer that she's acting like an idiot and it wouldn't be a big loss if she were gone because she is, what was it, self-centered? That is highly personal. You didn't just disagree with her. You charachterized her personally.

Ailonna replied with this 4.7 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

^^^ acting LIKE an idiot does not mean you are being called one. the difference is in the deliverance of the word. you displayed a perfect example of why so many people get offended. they interpret the words the wrong way.

Anonymous Q replied with this 4.7 years ago, 12 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

I'm sure it hurt her either way.

Ailonna replied with this 4.7 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

no one can be responsible for anyone's feelings, so your argument was pointless.

(Edited 10 seconds later.)

Anonymous Q replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

But what about his feeling of being disrespected? Who is responsible for that?

Molly joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

You have to see the big picture to understand. :) Dr Robert spent hours one day trying his best to deferentiate his honesty from in being a personal statement. No matter how many times he tries,mekay and Jen just couldn't see the difference.
I personally felt frustrated over on my end wanting for them to see none of this is personal. They couldn't keep their fist down long enough to see that. It was very personal for them. There was no getting through,and because of that,a much needed conversation a lot of us wanted was lost because of needing to defend something personal for the two of them.

My opinion. If you want to view Dr Roberts writings,you have to put down all expectations on what you expect from him,since he cares only about seeing the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. It's painful. You have to be humble when viewing. And if you can stay humble,you may see something. He doesn't sugar coat. Which really,isn't that kind of nice? Just give me the low down,and get on with it. Call out my bs,and I'll do my best to stay humble to SEE if he saw something...or if he is just an ass. The humble part HAS to come into play,or you will just be one of the people who just keeps their fists up to protect the 'something' they need to protect.

Writing from the heart...

Ailonna replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
the person who feels disrespected. he has stated many times he was not trying to make them feel that way, so much to the point that his stating it seems pathetic and desperate. that is because perhaps he is. he doesn't want people to see this for something it was not. i know what would make either of them feel better was if he got down on his computer knee and apologized. to them they would be comforted for their over reactions and feelings and think they were right, and they would be able to gain power over someone who they feel victimized them. Their reactions, her reactions, has more to do with the battle she is having with herself and the word than it does the doc specifically.

EDIT: molly beat me to it...

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Anonymous Q replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

So you think it was ok what he said to her but not ok for her to be hurt and not ok for her to say anything back because he is not responsible for his own feelings as well?

Anonymous Q double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 4 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

He called her self centered and acting like an idiot and she has to take it. She calls him bitter and mean and gets banned. I gotta go. Bye.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Ailonna replied with this 4.7 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

yes/ it is okay for her to be hurt/ she can say something back if she wants this is an open forum/ she has to be respectful about it/ he is responsible for his own feelings as well.

i highly doubt he is hurt by any of this, it is typical behavior from people who are hurting to lash out. not to say he doesn't care, just used to it, burned out. this has been an on going tedious "issue" with the both of them, and because in the past he has given her many chances, and also in the past she has said she understood his pov and will be more respectful, this was the last straw. he has apologized to her before, many times, for "hurting" her, and has expressed that he does care abut her as a person.

i think before you speak up for anyone you should actually know what the hell took place in the history. are you on of the folk that were banned and just can't stay away. my guess is jake. i wouldn't be shocked if you were sherry either, it likes to stir up pointless discussions for no reason.

in short, get the fuck over it. you aren't looking good and you aren't going to successfully shut down anything or anyone with your lack of "education" on the matter. this is deeper than just a religious debate. it stopped being about religion for jennifer long time ago.

Ailonna double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
bye, you coward. i hope next time you show up you give a name.

Molly replied with this 4.7 years ago, 8 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

> He called her self centered and acting like an idiot and she has to take it. She calls him bitter and mean and gets banned. I gotta go. Bye.


This is what I'm talking about with him not sugar coating his honesty what he sees. Put the fists down, use humility to REALLY view yourself. See if he has truth in his statement...or if he is just an ass in your opinion.If he's just an ass to you,say it once,and be on your way. I seriously doubt he banned her for one comment of "you are mean and bitter" as I see people say stuff about him ALL the time. It's those comments over and over again. If someone kept saying comments about you,many times,in many places,you have a right not to be friends with them to right? He doesn't owe anyone therapy.

Molly double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

> i highly doubt he is hurt by any of this, it is typical behavior from people who are hurting to lash out. not to say he doesn't care, just used to it, burned out. this has been an on going tedious "issue" with the both of them, and because in the past he has given her many chances, and also in the past she has said she understood his pov and will be more respectful, this was the last straw. he has apologized to her before, many times, for "hurting" her, and has expressed that he does care abut her as a person.


This is important. He does care about her as a person. Despite what it may look like.

(Edited 16 seconds later.)

Anonymous Q replied with this 4.7 years ago, 26 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

No he said it wouldnt be a big loss if she were gone. I believe him. It doesnt make any difference to me one way or another because this isnt my forum but it seems hypocritical to me.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Molly replied with this 4.7 years ago, 19 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

OK. Let me ask you this. Forget Doc and jen. Dont think about them with this thought:

You are on your FB page lets say,or any forum for that matter. This person keeps misinterpreting you,not once,but several times.Maybe even years. Lets say you are even friends with this person,and care about them. But every time you write the only way that is right for you,they find it offensive. Would you feel frustrated that they never understand you? Should you change the way you express,in order to adjust for them? Would you think it was not a big loss if they were to find a new place where they feel better understood?...on both parts?

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

Anon QI said it would not be a big loss because Jennifer much more often impeded the work here than helped it. You probably have not been around here long enough to know this, but this same drama with Jennifer has been repeated numerous times. She will ask me a serious question, and then when I reply in a serious way, suddenly completely miscontrue my replyeven accusing me of saying things I never did say (as she did in the Psyche thread)--and move into feeling that I am "mean" and have been "attacking her." She is gone now, and will not be coming back, and personally it is a relief to me. I do psychotherapy in my consulting room, not here on internet. Jennifer knows she needs help, but resists getting it. That is why she wanted to continue this drama with me: avoidance of her own very real issues by putting the blame on nasty mean Dr. Robert. Now I am done with that.

Where is the hypocrisy in any of that?

hy·poc·ri·sy [hi-pok-ruh-see]
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.

1.a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2.a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3.an act or instance of hypocrisy.

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

Anonymous S joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

I believe Mekay will get better outside this forum... I think forums aren't healthy at all for that kind of people, she was just suffering and actually it was pissing me off. Sorry, just had to take it out of me.

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 50 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

If Anon Q is actually a real person, and to the rest of you who still do not understand, let me add this:

When people come here with real questions, as Psyche did, and I reply, I am NOT open to having others hijack the conversation to "feel offended." If you have something to add, fine. That's the idea here. But do not use someone's serious question and my reply as another opportunity to complain about Dr. Robert. That has nothing to do with the conversation, and only steals attention away from the real issues. I set this up to allow me and others to reply to questions, not to put myself on the line in any way. That is nothing I need, and I will not abide it. Further, many here do not understand the first thing about civility. Many of you are just plain rude, and I have had enough of it.

The issue here is NEVER what kind of person Dr. Robert is or isn't. If you disagree with something I say, fine. If you insist on criticizing my motives or my personality, I will ban you. Because I don't like excluding anyone, I went around and around for a long time with problem people who would not get with the protocol here. Now I have decided to clean this place up. The rules are simple. If you follow them, you can enjoy this place for what it is. If you don't, and will not listen to a reminder, but insist on having things YOUR way, goodbye.

It is not a democracy here. This is my Forum, and I will run it as I see fit.


Now, for those of you who are REALLY thick, let's take this detail: Anon Q wrote: "He called her self centered and acting like an idiot and she has to take it. She calls him bitter and mean and gets banned." Exactly. Jennifer IS self-centered. Almost everything she wrote here was about her and her feelings, and she WAS acting like an idiotfor example imputing words to me which I never said. Robert is not bitter and meanfar from it. What is bitter and mean to Jennifer is the experience of coming upon someone who will not buy her bullshit. That's why she said things like "I'm not your bitch."

If you don't like it--stop complaining about Dr. Robert, and find somewhere else to hang out. I don't need you here, and I don't even need this Forum. I provide it as a service, gratis. If you cannot appreciate that, just go away. OK?

dr-robert (OP) double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 55 seconds later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

Helen-- You are not welcome here. Just go away.

Molly replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

Thank you for this free sight. It has opened my mind in ways I can't write out,because words kill how wonderful things have become for me. I WANTED it desperately and this sight gave me a place to extract the wisdom I've always lacked.

We should all be here to either WANT to help others,or WANT to learn about life/ourselves.

I know some need help in ways this forum can't provide for them. Like that one person said.

There would be no reason to get worked up and gang up on this sight or a person if we were here for a good reason.

Anonymous Q replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

why are you still talking smack about Jennifer when she said she wasnt coming back and then you banned her? she doesnt want to be here and you dont want her here so why continue to talk about her? you thought she was a problem and she got tired of you thinking she was a problem but anyway I dont think she was bullshit. I think she was very sweet and was even sweet to you over the past year. now that you are talking so much smack about her and pushing all her daddy buttons and she is self centered she is probably slitting her wrists now anyway. what a relief.

Anonymous Q double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

it doesnt disappoint me but I think it would disappoint someone else

Anonymous Q triple-posted this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

thats my point

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 18 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

Looks like Robert finally got tired of the emotionally driven circle jerk that prevented any real discussions from happening because certain people would start ranting and raving and then shut down, claiming everyone was out to get them and that everyone should respect their problems and pander to their sensitivities. Like Robert said, this forum isn't group therapy.

Jennifer, for example, raved at me and accused me of insulting everyone for a whole day, on 3 different threads and when finally she calmed enough to even register what I was saying, and I asked her how exactly did I insult anyone, she stopped responding. I apparently was guilty by association, when I asked her "guilty of what?" Again, no response, she just kept saying I've done something horrible. How the fuck are you supposed to have a conversation in that environment?

Then we have Helen who took no part in any of the discussion, most likely never even read the things Mekay and Jennifer were hurling at me for, again, no reason, started to defend her.

Deb joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 4 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

I am Jennifer's friend. She said that she started therapy and didn't want to talk about it here because the atmosphere was hostile. She said she was later accused of blaming her problems on someone else and avoiding therapy. I know she is sad that she will not have the support she expected after being a member here for so long.
After jumping through hoops and finding a verification email from here in my spam folder I am finally able to post. I hope things get worked out for everyone.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Helen joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Robert, I used to think you were a decent, intelligent, caring man. The shame of it is that as I have got better, my perception has changed. I see you now as an egocentric, narcissistic even, man who just cannot bear criticism.

You say I am not welcome here, and to just go away. Why? For giving my opinion? Is it really true that only you are allow to call em as you see em? You really don't care how you come across to others, that is clear and that is your right and part of me applauds that. The healthy part of me just shakes her head with sadness since not to care how others see us shows a lack of self awareness and a blindness to growth that can never lead to good relationships. Even unreal Internet relationships deserve .,. Something, I think. Honesty? Value? Trust?

Anyway. I am done with this conversation. I wish you could see what others see, but such is life. Be well.

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 20 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
So you realized that Robert is just a man after all and that his patience with people has a limit? Must have been terrible, truly.

Tell you what, why don't you start your own website, pay for it and ask nothing in return and I'll come visit with some people, see how long till you ban me, ok?

Helen replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 hour later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
This isn't about you, hexi, as far as I am concerned.

Of course Robert is just a bloke etc. I don't pretend to be perfect, never have done. I have learned an awful lot over the past 18 months, about myself and my issues, through this site and through therapy. I have gone from having no interest in living to moving forward with my life, as much as I can under my circumstances, loving my friends, accepting myself, allowing my friends to love me, and so on. It's not been easy and I doubt it ever will be, my issues are deeply ingrained but most of the time, I can just be, now.

And part of that is allowing myself to say what I think without fear of the consequences... Not without regard to others, but being open to hearing a different perspective, honest and precise conversation. In pursuit of better understanding.

Some people can't do that, it seems.

Molly replied with this 4.7 years ago, 3 hours later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Edited 1 minute later.)

Mekay replied with this 4.7 years ago, 26 minutes later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Really thick? Wow. Yet you're not insulting at all.
That was my point to begin with you REFUSE to see.
You are condescending, belittling, and in complete denial of it.

Mekay double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 1 minute later, 1 day after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
You know absolutely NOTHING about me
or my condition. This is the internet.
You don't even have a generalized idea
what my personality is like outside of here.

Isn't this "personal criticism" as well?
You should get a name if you think you
have some great insight into my being or who I am.


I have no interest in coming back.
It's a regime of tyranny here.

Team Jen!!

(Edited 9 minutes later.)

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Of course it isn't. If you think that, you missed the point.

Helen replied with this 4.7 years ago, 16 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Lol! Good point well made.

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
So if I imagine an insult I can just start attacking people for no reason? Cause that's where it got started. Here, let me point out something.

You are stupid. See? Insult.
That is a stupid thing to say. See? Statement of opinion meant to illustrate that I see no rationality or logic in what you're saying.

If you cannot differentiate between the two, you should find some self-help books so you would grasp the finer points of interaction and expressing intent in a conversation. Or, you know, just shut up.

Hexi double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
See, you don't even understand language, how could anyone possibly have a conversation with you? I never told you to shut up and I can address whoever I please, it's an open forum.

Ailonna replied with this 4.7 years ago, 56 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

^^^ Funny anon V, I do exactly that all the time without being a jerk off and get nothing but ignored or responses telling me to go look it up or how it is none of my business.

Hexi replied with this 4.7 years ago, 31 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Yeah... they never do, they just ignore the question and continue babbling. If you get offended by a word, not its actual meaning or intent, stay out of discussions.

Cassandra joined in and replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 hours later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

This New York comedian, a long time ago, had a story (pre-9/11) about a hijacked plane. All the passengers started yelling, whining and complainng self-righteously. The hijacker kept trying to speak over the crowd and get control, but it was impossible.
The kvetching got louder and louder until it reached a crescendo simultaneously with the sound of a gunshot.
Total silence, then an incredulous, "The dirty bastard shot himself."
The hijacker put a bullet through his own head.

Molly replied with this 4.7 years ago, 47 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

lol! Nothing like a little humor to cut the tension. Can we change the ending where the passengers AND the hijacker simultaneously shot them selves,and there be silence?

Cassandra replied with this 4.7 years ago, 12 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Done!

Helen replied with this 4.7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Ps. Hi Cass, nice to see you. Hope you are ok. Emailed you. Xx

Molly replied with this 4.7 years ago, 11 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)

Remember? Break out the gun. We all have a gun.We can end this now.*gun is at temple as we speak* We all do not see the same things.We all pull the trigger together. Ready?:)

Cassandra replied with this 4.7 years ago, 5 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Bang!

Molly replied with this 4.7 years ago, 19 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Bang!

Molly double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 4 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

J/k. I shot my husband. Ok now I'm ready. Bang!

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 12 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

(Citing a deleted or non-existent reply.)
Anon V You have set up a straw man here and now are knocking it down. I do not just "criticize [you] and say some pretty mean things when we haven't asked for your opinion on our character." I reply to questions from people who come here to ask me questions. Occasionally I begin a thread with an idea which I think is valuable to visitors. After one of those things happens, I begin to hear attacksnot disagreements, but attacks--on what I have written. Read the post that Psyche started asking about religion, and you will get a perfect idea of what I mean. BTW, Psyche loved my reply and thanked me for it. It was the religious believers who got bent out of shape and began to call me names and make up things which I never even said.

I am open to disagreement, but only if it is expressed politely and respectfully. That is the rule here. This site is not a place for people to demean me or the work I am doing here. It is not a place for entertainment and killing time, or trolling either. It has one main purpose: asking questions and receiving replies. Anyone who understands that will never have a problem here.

This will be my final explanation. I am done responding to complaints. I will run this site the way I want to run it, and that's the way the cookie crumbles. There are other sites to visit if you don't like this one. But if you do like this one, including the way I run it, I am happy to have you.

Be well,
RS

dr-robert (OP) double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 15 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Ah, Anon V, I did leave out one part of your question, and I will try to reply to it. The best way, I think is to quote part of my reply in a PM to someone who has been here for a long time and asked why I allowed much more free-for-all among the regulars than I do in interactions with me. You may not understand this, but I hope you do, and here it is:

> I set out the protocols for the Forum long ago after struggling mightily with trolls who only pretended to be serious, and othersnot trollswho were obviously disturbed personalities wanting to use the site not for advice or information, but as a kind of daily group therapy. For me, this raised ethical issues, for I do not believe in doing psychotherapy except face to face. Often I have been approached and asked to be someone's doctor online, including offers of a lot of money, and I have always declined. It is just too easy to write something and hit the post button, particularly when one can create an entire anonymous identity, and when you don't have to look "Dr. Robert" in the eyes when you say it. No good can come, I believe, from trying any depth psychotherapy under such circumstances. I do continue to work online with clients with whom I already have a personal relationship, and that is quite different naturally.

> Now, a group of regulars congealed in the Forum, and that has proven mostly to be a good thing. I have been touched by the way that some of you root for one another and support one another. I have seen some useful work done, and some positive changes occur, including the changes you mentioned in [name withheld]. But I am not a part of that group. There is no way I could be. That is why the protocols allow a two-level standard. Among the group, much leeway is allowed--[name withheld] calling you "stupid" for example. But since I am, willy-nilly, the authority figure, I simply cannot allow myself to be directly insulted time and time again without taking control. I would not do that in personal psychotherapy, and I will not do it in the Forum either.

> [some paragraphs left out here]

> Yes, you are correct that almost all of the regulars are people who at times struggle with normal, civil interactions, and that some flexibility is needed among such a population. My decision has been to allow that flexibility among all of you, but to draw a different line when it comes to how people communicate with "Dr. Robert." Some people in the group, I know, imagine that I demand respect because I resent being insulted or because I have some delusions of superiority, but I think you understand that that is not the case. I demand it because wisdom must not be allowed to be dragged down into the mud and demeaned by people with authority issues. It is not that such actions would hurt methey wouldn'tbut they would hurt the people who were allowed to get away with them.

As I say, Anon V, you may or may not understand this (I hope you do), but that is the plain truth.

dr-robert (OP) triple-posted this 4.7 years ago, 47 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Of COURSE I don't know who you are. Unlike me, you are anonymous, and can change identities anytime you like. Think that one over.

If you do not understand what I wrote above, there is nothing else I can say. If you are someone who has been banned, and want to be unbanned, just promise to abide by the rules, and you can start fresh. Otherwise, as I said above, I am finished for good with discussing how you or anyone else feels about how I administer MY Forum. I don't care if you like it or not. Not my problem. If you don't like it, make your own forum.

dr-robert (OP) quadruple-posted this 4.7 years ago, 15 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

I understood very well what you wrote, and I understood everyone's else's complaints too. You all want a democracy here. Equality. But that's not the situation.

If you really did understand what I wrote, you will understand why it is not an equal situation: you will have grasped that there are a number of people in any group like this who are just looking for some authority figure with whom they can engage and try to defy in a game of top dog/underdog. Therapists know all about that game. It arises often in many therapies. I am not willing to play that game here. If you want to sit alone with me in a small room and play it while meeting my gaze, and after I already know the details of your story, that's a different matter altogether.

THAT is the reason for the protocol.

(Edited 3 minutes later.)

Cassandra replied with this 4.7 years ago, 9 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_That_Never_Ends

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 24 seconds later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

That's fine. I believe I have been respectful and courteous in my dealings here unless someone began to push me too far. That kind of pushing may be unconscious, but it is not harmless. It interferes with the work here, which is about questions and replies, NOT questioning "Dr. Robert's" motives or character.

If you are any one of the three banned people, including Jennifer, and you want a fresh start, OK, provided that this really is understood. No more personal comments about me or my motivations. That is out of bounds entirely, and I have just explained at length why. (in fact, some of my colleagues are amazed that I would even be offering something like this)

(Edited 1 minute later.)

dr-robert (OP) double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 2 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Would you elucidate, Cassandra? I just checked out the lyrics, but I am not sure what you are getting at.

dr-robert (OP) triple-posted this 4.7 years ago, 48 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Thanks, Anon V. I wish you and everyone here well no matter what is said. And thanks for your understanding. I helps.

Cassandra replied with this 4.7 years ago, 37 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

I don't understand why people who aren't happy with this site don't leave and find other sites they do like.
It's the same story of what they don't like over and over again (the song that never ends).

I was once a member of a site run by a therapist and I didn't like one of her rules. I told her, she disagreed, and I said goodbye and left.
What would have been the point of arguing?
It's her site.
If I had continued to engage her, it would've been a power struggle I couldn't win, so why do it?
Besides the fact that it's her site and she has the right to make the rules.
I respected that.

That's what it's about-power.
To have continued to engage her would have been trying to get her to concede to my point of view, or to acknowledge it.
Why? I don't need some randon woman to acknowledge me in any way.
She has her own point of view-different from mine. She has the right to a different point of view. I respected it and left.

dr-robert (OP) replied with this 4.7 years ago, 24 minutes later, 2 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

That is very well put, Cassandra. Thank you.

And the thing is that I have no interest in power struggles of any kind. All of that ended for me long, long ago.

As I said above, if I am doing psychotherapy in a "committed relationship" with a client, OK. I will play that game if necessary to further the work, but here, no.

Somehow I feel that a corner has been turned here. I hope I am right. In any case, a corner has been turned in me. I am totally and completely finished with explaining myself and my motives.

Thanks again. I appreciate your post very much.

Cassandra replied with this 4.7 years ago, 17 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

Butting heads...a beautiful description of a power struggle.
You will never get it.

Cassandra double-posted this 4.7 years ago, 3 hours later, 3 days after the original post[^] [v] #0

That wasn't polite, to say you will never get it...I'm sorry.
I am also officially bowing out of this discussion.
I should have before my last post, but something not related to this thread was whirling around in my head and I've been displacing energy here, where it doesn't belong.
So, sorry again.
Over and out.
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